In "A Modest Proposal," Jonathan Swift assumes a persona (false personal voice as a writer) and suggests an outrageous course of action. In most of the essay, he does not mean what he says. The proposal is morally abhorrant to the real Swift. Why do you think he writes his "Modest Proposal" rather than saying directly what he believes? What are the advantages (and/or disadvantages) of saying the opposite of what he thinks? Find evidence in the essay that Swift does not want us to take him seriously.Wednesday, November 16, 2011
Question for November 18: A Modest Proposal (pp. 2462-68)
In "A Modest Proposal," Jonathan Swift assumes a persona (false personal voice as a writer) and suggests an outrageous course of action. In most of the essay, he does not mean what he says. The proposal is morally abhorrant to the real Swift. Why do you think he writes his "Modest Proposal" rather than saying directly what he believes? What are the advantages (and/or disadvantages) of saying the opposite of what he thinks? Find evidence in the essay that Swift does not want us to take him seriously.
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According to Jonathan Swift, there is only one way to solve the issue of there being too many people in the city, and too many children to poor parents. He proposes that we simply, eat the children. He says on page 2464, "The remaining hundred thousand may at a year old be offered in sale to the persons of quality and fortune through the kingdom, always advising the mother to let them suck plentifully in the last month, so as to render them plump and far for a good table." He does offer that twenty thousand children be kept for breeding purposes, which is a lot like what we do with animals. This essay was quite popular when it came out, and shocked many while reading it. I do believe, that he uses this outrageous idea to grab peoples attention. If he simply said that he felt the city was a bit overcrowded, and that poor people are having too many babies, I doubt that anyone would recognize the problem. So by using this false persona, he gains attention for the problem, as well as recognition as a writer. This is an advantage to him, for people know his name, and would be willing to pick up any other work that had his name on it. Evidence from the essay that reveals to the reader that he does not want us to take him seriously, is on page 2468 in the last paragraph. Swift says, "I profess, in the sincerity of my heart, that I have not the least personal interest in endeavoring to promote this necessary work, having no other motive than the public good of my country, by advancing our trade, providing for infants, relieving the poor, and giving some pleasure to the rich. " What a clever man.
ReplyDeleteThe first sentence of this short story seems rather sincere, but the second sentence seems to be making a mockery of these alleged women. The second sentence on Page 2462 states, "These mothers, instead of being able to work for their honest livelihood, are forced to employ all their time strolling to beg substance for their helpless infants, who, as they grow up, either turn into thieves for want of work, or leave their dear native country to fight for the Pretender in Spain, or sell themselves to the Barbados." This takes a early turning point in this story. When he says tis he implies that these women that are having children are using them to get money by not working, but begging. The author is suggesting that women stop having as many children and that there needs to be some type of control over the women having children. Like BlueEm said Swift says the answer to their problem of an abundance of poor children/parents is to eat the children. Although he uses irony, he is trying to get the attention of people to think twice before having children without having any income. While this might be a tad outrageous I think that it really could have had an effect on people. As BlueEm also said Swift does expose himself of joking around, "I profess, in the sincerity of my heart, that I have not the least personal interest in endeavoring to promote this necessary work, having no other motive than the public good of my country, by advancing our trade, providing for infants, relieving the poor, and giving some pleasure to the rich" (2468). I think the advantages of saying the opposite of what he thinks makes it more consuming which made this work so popular in the first place. Some people could not take this lightly and this could be the disadvantage. Although this was very outlandish I believe that it was a great way of getting peoples attention.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Crayola when they say that Swift is making a mockery of these women who are to poor to support their families. While he is making fun of them, I think it is in a lighter way then a mockery, and helps to point his point out. Swift is writing a satirical essay on the overpopulation of his country, and this outrageous proposal of eating babies is how he “proposes” it should be fixed. He says, “It is not improbable that some scrupulous people might be apt to censure such a practice (although indeed very unjustly) as a little bordering upon cruelty, which I confess, hath always been with me the strongest objection against any project, how well so ever intended” (2465). Here he is saying that the people who object it object because it is cruel, even though he is only proposing it with pure motives. He is poking fun of the people who do propose these cruel ideas, and still claim that it is for the better good of everyone. I think the reason he writes in a persona is because, it is showing how truly ridiculous his proposed actions are. The disadvantages to this type of writing are that people might actually take him seriously, and not understand the satirical irony, or they might not take him seriously at all. Even though he is using a round a bout way of writing, he is writing on an important that issue that needs to be resolved. The second to last sentence of the essay shows that Swift is just kidding and not being serious and I agree with them both. He says that he is only writing this piece to give the rich a good laugh, but also to promote the fact that children aren’t being cared for, as they should because so many woman are having babies and overpopulating.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Crayola that Swift is making fun of the way the city is run especially lower class women having an abundance of children and not being able to take care of them. Swift is also making fun of landlords when he says “I grant this food will be somewhat dear, and therefore very proper for landlords, who as they have already devoured the parents, seem to have the best title for children,” (2464). Swift is using his persona to show that landlords are too harsh on their tenants and they have already “devoured” the parents that live under them through their strict rules. Swift’s writing here is an advantage because it allows him to make fun of the people he thinks are wronging society without actually publicly persecuting them. Swift is able to tell his readers how he feels about landlords without pointing them out in a harsh manner. I also agree with Crayola by saying that Swift’s writing could be a disadvantage because some people may not understand that Swift is joking. However, there is evidence that shows Swift cannot be writing in a serious tone. One example of this is when he says, “I calculate there may be about two hundred thousand couple whose wives are breeders,” (2463). Obviously Swift is not saying he thinks women should be for purely breeding insane amounts of children but he uses this idea to make fun of society. Like before, he is making fun of the large amounts of children poorer women have. This is an advantage because it allows problems in society to be looked at with humor therefore people are more willing to listen to his thoughts as compared to if he was just openly criticizing lower class women.
ReplyDeleteAs BlueEm10 suggested, Jonathan Swift's main purpose is to shock the reader, to grab their attention. Swift is so genuinely angered by the incompetence of Irish politicians, he sarcastically suggests that the only way out of economic turmoil is to feed the population their own children. By encouraging the consumption of children as the only way out, Swift takes the stance of satire in its purest form. His "proposal" drips with sarcasm and is ridiculous to the point of comical genius. He maps out his plan in fine detail, complete with the number of children planned to be sacrificed and how old they will be on page 2464: "The remaining hundred thousand may at a year old be offered in sale to the persons of quality and fortune through the kingdom, always advising the mother to let them suck plentifully in the last month, so as to render them plump and far for a good table." The simple fact that Swift, whom had already acquired a reputation as a satirist, is suggesting cannabalism makes the tone cynical but amusing. The more he goes into detail about his plan, the more amusing it becomes. All the while he feigns a serious attitude. He believes in his plan and wishes the reader would too when he claims "I profess, in the sincerity of my heart, that I have not the least personal interest in endeavoring to promote this necessary work, having no other motive than the public good of my country, by advancing our trade, providing for infants, relieving the poor, and giving some pleasure to the rich" (2468). The sad truth is that Ireland really was in a terrible state when Swift wrote this critique. Rather than suggesting legitimate solutions for his dying nation, Swift takes on the role of a man who has lost everything and has resorted to the most demonic and desperate course of action for survival: cannabalism. By making a mockery of the current system, and saying the opposite of what he really means, Swift sheds a grisly light on the truly desperate situation that surrounds him.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Swift knows that society cannot fully accept the truth being given to them bluntly, which is why he facetiously speaks of an outrageous plan and goes about it somewhat modestly. I believe his approach is logical. He states in the third paragraph on page 2463, “There is likewise another great advantage to my scheme, that it will prevent those voluntary abortions, and that horrid practice of women murdering their bastard children, alas, too frequent among us, sacrificing the poor innocent babes, I doubt, more to avoid the expense than the shame, which would move tears, and pity in the most savage and inhuman breast.” The way Swift expresses his opinions of overpopulation and lack of food, is harsh and immoral but at the same time sometimes it is necessary to be a little outrageous in order to make your point clear. I agree with BlueEm10, Swift incorporates irony in his proposal, by proposing the idea that the people of Ireland should ingest their children in order to prevent them from being poor or becoming a burden to their parents/ country, and for making them beneficial to the public. (pg. 2462) It is kind of apparent that Swift isn’t being serious; the irony of the matter is only used to grab society’s attention of the issues at hand. The last paragraph on page 2468, gives proof that Swift isn’t at all serious about his ideas of change. The advantages of Swift saying the opposite of what he thinks is the presence of affection in the readers. Although he doesn’t vaguely state his true opinions it still causes the readers to consider the meaning of his proposal and how he went about it. The disadvantages are that probably not everyone felt affected or accepted Swifts opinions and how he professed his opinions.
ReplyDeleteIn this essay Swift wishes to educate. While his “modest proposal” is ludicrous, he certainly backs it with logical ideas and several statistics. His main intent as stated before by BlueEm 10 and poweredbypancakes, is to shock the public and grab their attention. This issue of an overwhelming poor population was obviously ignored at a time when there was such a large gap between the wealthy and the poor. Swift’s proposal to feed infants to the population of Ireland is incredibly immoral and disgusting to think about, however he does give justification. He states, “For we can neither employ them nor cultivate land. They can very seldom pick up a livelihood by stealing till they arrive at six years old, except where they are of towardly part,” (2463). His argument, when forgetting about morals, is extremely logical. Perhaps Swift wants his readers to realize that allowing this many children to starve every year is in itself extremely immoral. Also his use of specific statistics shows that he wishes to inform and educate as he states, “There only remain an hundred and twenty thousand children of poor parents annually born,” (2463). Because many people at this time were extremely ignorant and gullible this essay is a good way to grab attention. An advantage of writing a piece like this is that he can be as guttural and vile as he wishes. Parents are supposed to defend their children with their lives. Swifts imagery should immediately make every parent think of their children and how they would want their children to be treated. Swift wishes to change the society he is a part of and scare tactics such as these are always effective.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with crayola as well. It is obvious that the entire piece is full of sarcasm and not to be taken seriously. An example of this is on page 2465 when Swift writes "He said that many gentlemen of this kingdom, having of late destroyed their deer, he conceived that the want of venison might be well supplied by the bodies of young lads and maidens, not exceeding fourteen years of age nor under twelve."
ReplyDeleteSwift is saying that hey since there is a shortage of deer lets eat the teenagers. They are young and less likely to have disease and why not if they are already starving? Swift then says: "...and these to be disposed of by their parents, if alive, or otherwise by their nearest relations." Their parents are starving so they are going to want food too, all we have to do if wait for them to give their children over to us. If they are still around. No sane person can take this written piece seriously. Swift goes on to talk about skinning babies and using the skin for leather.
Swift is trying to make a point that there is no real solution to fixing the economic problems that this country has and their excess of unemployed citizens. He is trying to make the upper class see their stupidity in the way that they think they can solve these issues so easily. He is not trying to offend anyone other than the wealthy upper class by showing how the government runs on catering to their needs.
A Modest Proposal, as stated in the title, aims at preventing the children of poor people in Ireland from being a burden to their parents or country, and making them beneficial to the public. The author of A Modest Proposal, Jonathan Swift, discusses a way to find a resolution to this dilemma. Swift’s suggested course of action is bizarre and immoral. “ I propose to provide for them in such a manner as instead of being a charge upon their parents or the parish, or wanting ford and raiment for the rest of their lives, they shall on the contrary contribute to the feeding, and partly to the clothing, of many thousand”( Swift, 2463). He proposed to plump the starving children up and sell them as food to the wealthy land owners. Swift supports his claim by providing a developmental process for the children, details such as the number of children to be sold, the price, and their weight. He suggests that children being sold will result in good integrity among families. Swift goes on to state that this proposal will solve political, economic, and social problems in Ireland. I agree with BlueEm10, poweredbypancakes, and Dr. Mantis Tabogan when they state that Swift’s main intent is to shock the public and grab their attention. I believe that Swift writes his “Modest Proposal” rather than saying directly what he believes in order to capture the attention of the audience and making them aware of this problem. An advantage of writing this proposal is that Swift can say anything that he pleases, while making a logical point. Also, as stated by Esperanza, one disadvantage of writing this proposal is that some people may have disagreed with the author’s opinions and the way he acknowledged the problem. In the following quote from the text, Swift says not to take him seriously and that he was just trying to find a way to get the audience’s attention so that they can find a solution to the country’s economic problems. He also states that he would never sale any of his children for a single penny. “ I profess, in the sincerity of my heart, that I have not the least personal interest in endeavoring to promoted this necessary work, having no other motive than the public good of my country, by advancing our trade, providing for infants, relieving the poor, and giving some pleasure to the rich. I have no children by which I can propose to get a single penny.” (Swift 2468)
ReplyDeleteIn “A Modest Proposal”, Jonathan Swift makes the outlandish proposal to start treating the children of the poor like livestock, slaughtering them and using their meat to feed the rich. He then backs up this crazy proposal with statistical information and facts. As a reader one might even find themselves starting to agree with some of the points that he is making because although the whole idea is completely immoral, it was also extremely logical. I agree with most of the previous bloggers in that this was to shock the public into realizing the problem of overpopulation and the effect it had on the Irish economy and way of life. But I feel the thing that was the most shocking about this proposal was that it was so logical. I also agree with Dr. Mantis in that it is also immoral to let this many children starve each year. So in all, this satirical style used by Swift is very affective in grabbing the reader’s attention and getting the point across that over population was a big problem in Ireland. In the final paragraph on page 2468 Swift states, “I profess, in the sincerity of my heart, that I have not the least personal interest in endeavoring to promote this necessary work, having no other motive than the public good of my country, by advancing our trade, providing for infants, relieving the poor, and giving some pleasure to the rich.” This clever closing paragraph lets the reader know that Swift does not intend for this to be taken seriously, while also providing a perfect closing to his proposal.
ReplyDelete- Hawk
While I agree with most posters about the mockery and absurdity of Swift's propasal, I also find Watts Davidson to be correct. Swift is not being cruel for cruelty's sake. Being so blatantly offensives draws people into debate over his proposal. He is right on one point, poor people should act poor. By this I mean they should use resources available to them in tgr best possible manner, but they are not. They are having more children than they can sustain. They are starving and yet they keep procreating. His proposal sheds light on this absurdity.
ReplyDeleteThere is something that keeps getting overlooked by the previous posters. Swift addresses how something that seems reasonable and small affects the entire country. One more mouth to feed puts a burden not on just that mother or that family, but the entire nation. He also enlightens the reader that the nation is starving and in trouble. He shows us this starving puts them at danger as a nation by saying, "I could name a country which would be glad to eat up our whole nation without it" (2467). This shows an immediacy of need and a call to change in Ireland.
Also Swift touches on the warring between protestants and Catholics. This battling is tearing the country a part. When he says,"therefore it will have one other collateral advantage, by lessening the number of Papists among us" (2464). This is to shock people of the country into despising how stupid and petty this battling over Christianity is. They wouldn't eat Catholic babies! Why? Because whether Catholic or protestants people are people, babies are babies and life is sacred. So just as they wouldn't eat babies, killing each other is just as stupid and should be just as shocking.
I believe that Swift wrote his “Modest Proposal” as way to way to spark people’s attention. When people read something absurd such as eating babies, or the comparing of women to animals and breeders, it is embedded in their minds and they bring up the topic to others in conversation. By Swift not directly coming out and just saying that there is a problem of too many poor children and over population, people are aware of this topic already but his proposal made people realize that they need to find a solution to this problem instead of just trying to ignore it. It makes the people think critically about the policies, motivations and values in Ireland. He wants people to find real solutions he even states, on page 2468, “I desire those politicians who dislike my overture, and may perhaps be so bold to attempt an answer…” The advantages are that he is able to expose the problems within their society and put blame on people with a touch of humor so it is not taken offensively. However, this could also lead to the disadvantage that some people may not understand that he isn’t being literal when saying that they should kill and eat the babies. I agree with Esperanza on the fact that some people such as the rich probably weren’t affected too much by this because they don’t have much concern for the poor. I also agree with Esperanza that some people not feel accepted/offended because of the way in which Swift proposed these ideas. Poweredbypancakes stated that some people may few this as a mockery because Ireland really was in a bad situation when it was written. The fact that Swift isn’t really giving moral solutions and is just drawing attention to the problem some people may view as wrong.
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