No one in our class commented on the question for Friday, but if you go to the blog at
http://en205007f11.blogspot.com/, you will see a lively discussion on Friday, and a persuasive argument that Mirabell is not a hero, certainly not in the usual sense. What do you think? Let's enlarge the question. How does Mirabell compare to Fainall, for instance? Are the two moral equals? If so, why? If not, why not?
I find that the main difference in Fainall and Mirabell are their motivations. Fainall is motivated by jealousy and fortune. Mirabell is motivated by love. He really does love Millamant. The only reason he wants her fortune is so that she will be taken care of. This is a quite noble reason for wanting money. I don’t think he wants it so that he can specifically be rich. He wants his lady to remain a lady. Yes, he was involved with Mrs. Fainall, but I don’t think he meant her harm by marrying her off to his friend. I think he actually did it so she would be cared for. This is a noble trait as well. He also has no control over Mrs. Marwood. He did not force her to love him, but she chose her own feelings for him. I don’t think he leads her on either. Mirabell is guilty of leading on Lady Wishfort, but I don’t think he did it with the intentions of hurting the lady, but only ingratiating himself to her. He wanted her to see his merits and be willing to give him a shot with Millamant whom he really does love. I find Mirabell more like a real person than say a hero like Beowulf. Real people are often both good and bad. We all do things we are not proud of, or we approach situations not in the best manner.
ReplyDeleteFainall does not have the best intentions for anyone. He doesn’t love his wife, but is upset only that she had once had a relationship with Mirabell. He is also jealous that Mrs. Marwood, his lover, is in love with Mirabell. Fainall is set on revenge. Revenge is never a good or noble motivation. “Damn him, that had been mine” (2259). He is only worried about what is his and about his territory being encroached upon. It has nothing to do with love at all.
I agree with Hiro Protaganist when they say that Mirabell is a bad person, but in respects he is a lot better then Fainall. Hiro says that Fainall has motivations such as jealousy and fortune, while Mirabell’s motivation is his true love for Millamant. I thank that Fainall is less jealous then he is mad that he was made a fool and cuckold by his wife. He says, “ If I had kept my speed like a stag, twere somewhat, but to crawl after, with my horns like a snail, and be outstripped by my wife- ‘tis scurvy wedlock” (2259). Fainall is saying that even though he knew that his wife had been with Mirabell and had made him a cuckold, he still crawled to her in marriage, however he call the marriage “scurvy wedlock,” so he knows that his marriage is diseased with distrust and hatred. Fainall also says that he s going to use his wife to get to Lady Wishfort at the suggestion of Mrs. Marwood. The fact that a man could threaten to divorce his wife just to get a rise out of a woman is so wrong. Mirabell I don’t think would be beyond this thought, but I think he would be doing it for a just reason instead of Fainall who is doing it out of spite for his wife. Fainall however, cannot even talk about his wife being unfaithful to him because he is having an affair with Mrs. Marwood. I think that the reason he is even helping Mirabell is so that he can finally get rid of him. Once Mirabell is married, he want have to worry about him taking his woman and things that are his, in this aspect Fainall is very selfish as well.
ReplyDeleteAs Hiro Protaganist and Watts Davidson have both made clear Mirabell has gotten around a little bit. But I do not think that it is something to hold against him. I think he was simply being a guy. I would have to disagree with Watts Davidson when they said he is a bad person because of those particular actions. But I would guess having a bunch of females that he had slept with in one room would be incredibly awkward. He talks to Fainall about this because Fainall asks if him and Millamant have fought the night before and he responds by saying, "Seeing me, they all put on their grave faces, whispered to one another rgen complained aloud of the vapors, and after fell into a profound silence" (2230)As Hiro and Watts have mentioned Mirabell is actually in true love with Millamant, and that is his only motivation where as for Fainall it is out of spite and humiliation for being known as a cuckold and a fool. If someone was to call me a cuckold I would not be too happy about it. He disrespects his wife not in any ways harmful to her but he makes it known that he is not happy she has been with Mirabell before. He is cheating on his wife with Mrs. Marwood who is madly in love with Mirabell, so of course that does not help Fainall's envy toward him. I definitely agree with Watts when they said that he Fainall is only helping Mirabell so that he can get rid of him and have his women to himself again, by marrying Mirabell and Millamant. He is not in this for love, he's in it for whatever he gets out of it. Mirabell is in it for love, which I believe makes him the actual "hero" not overall, but over Fainall. As for being "moral equals" they are absolutely not. Mirabell has better morals than Fainall he wants whatever is best for the love of his life where all Fainall wants is what is best for him, and I do not think that will change.
ReplyDeleteThe motives of the two men are both in disliking for me. They are both two greedy men who want what they can get out of people. I disagree with Hiro Protagonist when they state Mirabell’s only reason for wanting Millamant’s fortune is so she can be taken care of. Just like Fainall, Mirabell is a very selfish man. If Mirabell truly loved Millamant like he claimes, than her fortune would not matter, nor would it be discussed so frequently. I also disagree with the motive for Mirabell. It isn’t love, its money; just as it is with Fainall. I believe the two morals of these men are equal. As fortune being the common element between the two, they both use people to get what they want. They are both not in love with any of these women. Although I agree with Watts Davidson’s reasons why Fainall is wrong, it seems worse for him because he is the one who is actually married. Both men are in the wrong. Fairnall states on pg. 2259 that he married his wife only so she could “keep him.” Mirabell uses Lady Wishfort as a way to get Millamant. However, if he was really a man with such merits, he would not have to tell; his traits would be revealed by themselves. Fainall’s actions appear to be far worse than Mirabell’s, only because he is married. I find no heroic traits in the character, Mirabell. The actions of the two characters are different, but their motives remain the same. Both men have not succeeded their goal of fortune because their morals are wrong.
ReplyDeleteI would have to agree with ice_ME both characters morals are warped. However,in my opinion Mirabell is much more selfish and conniving as compared to Fainall. Fainall is a man of honor, faith and loyalty. Well at least he was until he discovers his wife, Mrs. Fainall’s, adultery. At this point he realizes he is nothing more than just a cuckoled. Fainall states “And I it seems am a husband, a rank husband; and my wife a very errant, rank wife – all the way in the world. ‘Sdeath, to be a cuckold by anticipation, a cuckold in embryo? Sure I was born with budding antlers like a young satyr, or citizen’s child. ‘Sdeath to outwitted, to be outjilted—outmatrimonied.” (pg. 2259) After this outrage of emotions, Fainall creates a plan to make his wife and her mistress, Sir Willful to look foolish. He wants to send her letter to show that he is very aware of her sin and dishonor and then he will divorce her. “I am married already, so that’s over. My wife has played the jade with me – well, that’s over too. I never loved her, or if I had, why that would been over too by this time. Jealous of her I cannot be, for I am certain, so there’s an end of jealousy. Weary of her I am and shall be – no, there’s no end of that; no, no that were too much to hope. Thus far concerning my repose. Now for my reputation; as to my own, I married not for it; so that’s out of the question. And as to my part in my wife’s –she can take none from me; tis against all rule of play that I should lose to one who has not wherewithal to stake.” (pg. 2260). This shows that Fainall is a better and bigger man. He is able to remain his composure; he doesn’t care about what others think of him (reputation) he just wishes to be done with his wife. He is not jealous nor wish to start a fight, he says it is as simple as making his wife into his ex wife.
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