Saturday, September 10, 2011
Question for September 14: The Wife of Bath's Tale
Comment upon the ways in which the Tale of the Wife of Bath (pages 275-84) is a reflection of her own view of the world. (You might look at theme, characters, or plot, or consider how this tale could only be told by the Wife, not by any of the other pilgrims to whom we've been introduced.)
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
At first I believed that the Wife of Bath was only meant for satirical entertainment to represent the fickleness and manipulative ways of women but by the end of her introduction she reveals how much she has been through and shows much more psychological depth. This makes me admire her at least as equally as I am entertained by her. The admiration, however, is not all together positive. It is more just being impressed by her gall to be so bold to act this way during her time.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with Hiro protagonist. I am really impressed at how strong she is and is very ahead of her time when it comes to her strength despite the feminine roles of the time. Im also interested in what Hiro said about her wanting to be married so that she can have sex without scorn. I did not realize that on my own but now that I look back at the literature she does spend a lot of time justifying her sleeping with five husbands. She even brings up how men are not held to the same standard biblically when it comes to bigamy and sex.
“I governed hem so wel after my lawe/ that eech of hem ful blissful was and fawe/ To bringe me gaye things from the faire” Line 225. It is half impressive and half entertaining that she is so pleased with the way she treats her husbands so poorly. She knows however, that in order to survive domestically with a difficult husband
“Ye wise wives, that conne understonde/Thus sholde ye speke and bere him wrong on honde/ For half so boldely can ther no man/ Swere and lie as a woman can” Lines 231-234. Chaucer is possibly also poking fun at how devious women were thought to have been back then and uses the Wife of Bathe to embody it. This is when Chaucer means for her to be entertaining.
I completely do not understand Feathery Friend's comment. How does it have to do with the Wife of Bath's tale? Feathery Friend does not even pull a quote from her tale. Therefore, I am not sure how to comment on Feathery Friend's comment because it is completely irrelevant to the question. The Wife of Bath’s tale completely reflects what she desires most in life. Her tale is about a young knight who gets in trouble with the queen because he raped a young girl. In order to save his life he must find out what women want most in life. An old hag tells him the answer sparing his life. The knight is deeply troubled that he has to wed and bed this old hag so she asks him what he truly wishes her to be: someone ugly but faithful or someone beautiful and unfaithful? The knight tells the old woman she can decide what she wants to be and because he lets her decide, she turns both beautiful and faithful. This story represents the Wife of Bath because it reveals what she truly desires from a marriage. The wife tells that she was 40 and he was 20 when she married her last husband. She describes her feelings toward her last husband as “I trowe I loved him best for that he was of his love daungerous to me,” (lines 519-20). This shows that her youngest husband kept her youth alive and she loved him the most out of all the 5 husbands, even though she was much older then him.The knight is described as a young, vibrant man like her latest husband. In her final lesson, in her story, she tells how what women most desire is to be able to be in charge of their husbands. The Wife of Bath feels this way because when describing her good husbands, she says there were old and she would not give them everything they desired from her until they gave her large sums of money. She is shown having superior control over her meek, older husbands correlating directly with the idea of giving women control as shown in her tale.
ReplyDeleteThe Wife of Bath is a very different woman considering the time in which she lived. Her story suggests that she lived very lustfully and did not conform to the cult of virginity principle practiced by most women of her era. First of all, she had five husbands during her life which goes directly against the practiced doctrine of one mate for life. Even more disturbing than her having five husbands is her outlook on sexual relations with these husbands as well as other men. She believed in experience not authority and valued her vast sexual experience as a good thing. The story suggests she believed she was of greater importance and worth because of her lust rather than her protecting her virginity from men. She makes reference to a wealthy man having bowls made of gold and of wood in his home and begs the question do they not serve the same purpose? This analogy is the way she feels about relations with men as well, saying that her fruitfulness and experience is of equal worth (if not more) than that of a virgin. She tells tales of deceitfulness and manipulation of men and acts as if they were not wrong and were her just living her life to the fullest. She draws reference to men in the bible having more than one wife almost as a justification for her actions; however, her saying that she does not and has not said no to men goes directly against most of the religious mens views’ in the bible. Overall her story gives me the impression that she is proud and boastful of her difference and lives happily that she has had her way with so many men, viewing the world as missing out on such a great opportunity.
ReplyDeleteAt the beginning of the story it is not clear what direction the Wife of Bath is trying to go in. There is a knight that rapes a girl and is saved by the queen under the condition that he find out what women truly want. The Wife of Bath’s promiscuity is seen here. As the story continues an old women becomes a character of interest. This old woman answers the knight’s prayers and gives him the answer he is seeking: woman wants to be in complete control of her man. This directly relates to the Wife of Bath in that all throughout her life she sought nothing but to dominate her relationships with her husbands. After the knight receives judgment he is saved. However the old woman comes seeking reward for her good deed towards the knight. She asks his hand in marriage and he reluctantly complies. The old woman is ignored passionately by the man until she gives him two choices. She tells him that he can stay with her and she promises they will live happily and she will turn beautiful, or she can die and he can live unhappily with a beautiful girl. He knows that he must do the right thing and be with old women. At this point towards the end of the story it is clear that the Wife of Bath is supposed to be this old woman convincing this younger, more handsome knight to be with her as she had done in her own life. Perhaps not to this extreme but the situation is still similar. What gives it most away is in the last lines of the story when she says, “And Jesu Crist us sende Housbondes meeke, yonge, and fresshe abedde and grace t’overbide hem that we wedde. And eek I praye Jesu shorte hir lives that nought wol be governed by hir wives, and olde and angry nigrades of dispence God sende hem a verray pestilence!”(1264-1270). This statement is a declaration of her lust for control over men and her need to be the dominant partner in a relationship even if it is through lies and deceit.
ReplyDeleteI agree with SomeoneLikeYou that FeatheryFriend's comment had no relation to the question, although he or she did speak of the Wife of Bath, the question was about her tale and how it relates to her. When I was about to begin reading to Wife of Baths' tale, I was excited to see what such a woman would tell. Her character is so distinct and almost comical that I knew she would produce an entertaining story. The story begins with a knight who has raped a young girl. Not quite an enjoyable beginning, which made me skeptical. The knight should have been executed, but the queen tells him that she will spare his life if he discovers the answer to a question. In lines 910-911 she says, "I graunte thee lif if thou canst tellen me What thing it is that wommen most desiren". She is asking the knight to discover what women desire most. So he asks many women who tell him they most desire things such as, "richesse, honour, jolinesse" like in lines 931-932. But this was not the answer that the queen was looking for. Finally he meets an old hag who tells him the answer he is looking for. Women want most to be in control of their men, like what Dr. Mantis Tabogan said. After the queen grants him his life, the knight is forced to marry the old hag and as they are laying together on their wedding night, the knight confesses that he cannot be sexual with her because she is old and ugly. She asks him if he would rather her be beautiful and unfaithful or ugly and faithful. Once he allows her to choose for herself, she becomes both beautiful and faithful. The knights character most likely relates to her 5th husband, who was young but did not know what women wanted. The wife herself could be the character of the old hag, who even though she is old (older than her husband) she can still be beautiful and faithful. Which is a way for the audience to tell that this story was written by her.
ReplyDeleteI think that the tale of the Wife of Bathe is greatly related to her way of thinking and way of life. The whole point of the story is for a young knight to figure out what women really want. He was given the task by the queen, in order for him to save his life after raping a young girl. He goes through all the obvious choices like money, happiness, and freedom, but nothing was right until he met up with an old hag who gives him the right answer. The knight then goes back to the queen and tells her, “‘My lige lady, generally,’ quod he,‘Wommen desyren to have sovereyntee As wel over hir housbond as hir love, And for to been in maistrie him above;” (lines 81-84). He is saying that women just want to be the master above their husbands. This simple thing is what the wife of Bathe looks for in every relationship that she has. For her first three husbands, she used her sexual prowess to stay above them. They were old and could not do much to stop her from “wearing the pants” in the relationship. In her last two relationships however she starts to lose her power over men, even going so far as to manipulate one in to thinking that he has about killed her so that he would bend to her every will. Finally, I agree with what BlueEm10 said, about the old hag and the knight representing the wife of Bathe and her husbands. I had never though about that, but while rereading the story I can see how BlueEm10 was brought to that conclusion.
ReplyDeleteBlueEm10 stated that the knight is more than likely related to the character of the Wife of Bath’s fifth husband, Jankyn, and the old hag is reflected as the Wife of Bath herself. Although, I agree with that, I also disagree that the knight resembled ONLY the fifth husband and the hag is ONLY the Wife of Bath. I believe her tale reflects her first three husbands as well, if not all five of them, and that the Wife of Bathe is somewhat reflected as the women who wanted material or unnecessary things such as what were first listed to the knight on page 277, lines 931-933: “Some saiden women loven best richesse; some saide honour, some saide jolinesse; some riche array, some saiden lust avedde.” When the women first admitted to him that what a woman truly desires is: wealth, honor, pleasure, a man with looks, and lust, I thought of the Wife of Bath in her younger years. In her prologue, she described her first three husbands as “good”, because they gave her the majority of these material and unnecessary things. She was also able to be the “master” of the relationship with them because of the guilt and the mind games she played with them. So I believe that the last two husbands (the “bad” ones), especially Jankyn, became the timeframe where she started to age, and become a “hag”. Because she started to age, I believe she started losing the control of her relationships because she couldn’t necessarily rely on her body to get what she wanted. The knight exemplifies that perfectly when the hag wonders why he, as her husband, is treating her so offensively after she just saved his life and he answers by saying “Thou art so loothly, and so oold also, and therto comen of so lough a kynde, that litel wonder is thogh I walwe and wynde.” (Page 280, lines: 1106-1108). He implied he was twisting and turning because she is old and ugly. Therefore, I believe that the Wife of Bath made “power of the relationship” the answer to the Queen’s question because it is what she could not receive from Jankyn, she felt powerless because he was not fooled by her mind games and body like the first three husbands.
ReplyDeleteWell towards the beginning she says that the king was going to sentence the knight to death for ravishing a woman. Then the queen and some other ladies begged him not to kill him so the king left the knight’s fate of life or death all up to the queen. This part shows that the wife of bath is telling this tale because she thinks women should be in charge and have all the power. Then after that the queen tells the knight “I graunte thee lif if thou canst tellen me what thing it is wommen most desiren.” This quote shows that what women desire most in life is so important that it could mean life or death for the knight. Only the wife of bath would be so concerned about what women desire. Once the knight returns from his year long search of finding what women most desire he came up with this answer, "wommen desire to have sovereinetee as wel over hir housbonde as hir love, and for to been in maistrye him above. This is youre moste desir though ye me kille. Dooth as you list: I am here at youre wille." The wife of bath would tell this tale because she believes that is what women want. In the end of her tale the wife of bath calls out to Jesus Christ saying send us meek husbands, young, and lusty, and grace to outlive them. No other character would say that. I agree with watts Davidson that her tale is greatly related to her way of life and the way she thinks. I thought it was interesting when BlueEm10 thought that the old hag could have represented the wife of bath. I can see how the two have some similarities.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the Wife of Bath’s tale I think that even if I would not have been told prior to reading it who was telling the story I easily would have been able to distinguish it was her story. There were multiple parts in the story where the reader could with no trouble tell it was coming from the way she views the world. Near the beginning of the story the queen gives the young knight an ultimatum; she will keep him alive if he could tell her the thing that women desire most. In that time period most people believed that men were dominant over women and it did not matter what women wanted in life. This initially sparked my attention that it was the Wife of Bath telling the story because she thinks that what women want out of life and what they want from their husbands should be main priority. The Wife of Bath also always likes to be in control and have all the power. I agree with idontknow on her reasoning on why she thought the power over whether or not to keep the knight alive was given to the queen. I agree with his/her because it shows the storyteller thinks women should be more dominant than men. Later in the story she has the knight make a another deal with the old lady, “’Plight me thy trouthe here in myn hand’ quod she, ‘The nexte thing that I require thee, Thou shalt it do, if it lie in thy might, And I wol telle it you er it be night”;”(lines 1015-1019).By making the old women have control over they knight its displays once again that The Wife of Bath believes that women should hold all control. I also agree with Watts Davidson on the fact that the knights answer to the question of what women desire perfectly matches up with what she looks for in each of her relationships with men. However, I disagree with A1643 when he/she says that they think the knight represents all the husbands. I think that the young knight mainly represents the fifth husband. In lines 1069-1072 it states, “For though that I be foul and old and poore, I nolde for al the metal ne for ore That under erthe is grave or lith above, But if thy wif I were and eek thy love.” This illustrates that the Wife of Bath wants this man not for anything but love and that is the main thing she wanted out of her fifth husband.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Anonymous. The Wife of Bath lived a very different life than most women during this time period. She says she has five husbands and does not believe in saving her virginity. She also relates herself to Solomon in Lines 35-39. The Wife of Bath states, "I trowe he hadde wives many oon, as wolde God it leveful were to me to be refresshed half so ofte as he. Which yifte of God hadde he for all his wives!" I feel like the Wife of Bath is trying to see the good out of having so many husbands, because if Solomon had seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines and that it was a gift from God that he had all of theses wives. The Wife of Bath is trying to believe the same thing- that it is a gift from God that she has five husbands, where the first three are very wealthy. The Wife of Bath is a very lustful woman. She has a gap-tooth, and during this time period, gap-toothed women were known to be lustful. She even tricked her fifth husband. Lines 581-589 states how she tricked her husband in to marrying her and everything she wanted with him, and more. However, the Wife of Bath states this tactic was taught to her by her mother, and all of these things she was saying to her fifth husband were false. Her tale is just a story, and I believe her reflection on life relates to her tale because sometimes life can be a playing field.
ReplyDeleteAs stated in the text, The Wife of Bath, also known as Alison, is a very confident, large woman with striking characteristics. Agreeing with Anonymous, The Wife of Bath is very unique and different from women who lived during her time. Some of features, such as being gap-toothed, suggest that she is a very lusty and sensual woman. The Tale of the Wife of Bath is a reflection of her own view of the world. Throughout her tale, The Wife of Bath addresses topics of dominion, virginity, and marriage. For instance, it is stated in lines 1044-1046 that women desire to have authority; authority over her husband and her love. “Wommen desire to have sovereinetee as wel over hir housebonde as hir love, and for to been in maistrye him above (Lines 11044-11046). Lines 11044-1046 are reflection of the Wife of Bath’s view of the world. The Wife of Bath believes that despite appearance, women should have control over their husbands and husbands should submit to their wives. She believes that experience is the greatest authority. Also, in my opinion, the old hag, an old woman in the tale who transforms into a beautiful young woman, symbolizes the Wife of Bath. The two aged and hideous women, the Wife of Bath and the old hag, both stand for dominion. The transformation of the old hag into a young beautiful woman is one desired by the Wife of Bath. Although the Wife of Bath is a very confident woman, in my opinion, she notices that she is getting old and is not as attractive as she used to be.
ReplyDeleteThis tale of the Wife of Bath is about a young knight that has done a bad deed. He is brought before the king and queen and the queen has the decision of what to do with him. The queen decided to let him answer the question of what women really want. He is give a year and a day to do so. He takes this year to ask women and ends up getting a variety of questions. In this tale of the Wife of Bath reflects her own world because the plot of the story is to find the one thing that women really want. It shows that because The Wife of Bath had many husbands that she herself is looking for that very question. She in fact is the knight searching for the answer. The Wife of Bath is also present in the old woman. After she told him the answer she asked him to return a favor for her if she was right. The knight was given the the correct answer, “Wommen desire to have sovereinetee as wel over hir housebonde as hir love, and for to been in maistrye him above (Lines 11044-11046). This I also believe is what The Wife of Bath wants in life, to have the upper hand above her husbands. She would even play tricks in order to recieve their love and devotion. After the answer was given the old woman says, "Nay, thanne," quod she, "I shrewe us bothe two! "Nay, then," she said, "I curse both of us two! I nolde for al the metal, ne for oore That under erthe is grave or lith above, But if thy wyf I were, and eek thy love." (1062-1066) The old woman is saying although she is ugly and old she asks for marriage of the young knight in return for his life. I believe that given the opportunity the Wife of Bath would do this. In the prologue it shows that her favorite husband was young such as the knight. I also believe she would go to these lengths to marry. As Ambitious_Heart repeats, The Wife of Bath is a complete individual especially in her day and time.
ReplyDeleteThe Wife of Bath opens up her tale by introducing the time period, "In th'olde dayes of the King Arthour" (line 863). This could be The Wife of Bath's way of trying to tell her story, while disguising time period. I understand the point SomeoneLikeYou made when they said, “The Wife of Bath’s tale completey reflects what she desires most in life.” The Wife of Bath and the wise old lady in the story seemingly have more things than one in common. The Wife of Bath also tells the readers and listeners that a knight has raped a woman, and his life is at stake. In order to save his life he has to answer one question; what is the one thing that most women desire? In exchange for the answer, the knight agrees to do anything in his power to repay an old lady. The answer to the question ends up being “Women desiren to have sovereynetee as wel over hir housbond as hir love, and for to been in maistrie hym above” (lines 1044 – 1046). This answer is one of the most recognizable ways to tell that the story was being told from the viewpoint of The Wife of Bath. The only thing she values besides sex is the control she has had over all of her husbands. This was very unusual in her time period, where women were inferior to their spouses. She was a very bold and independent character, and even though you may not agree with everything she has done; some sense of admiration has to be given to her for all of the risks she has taken. I agree with Feathery Friend in saying that I am impressed by her boldness.
ReplyDelete